Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

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Expand view Topic review: Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by catherine » Tue Nov 04, 2003 09:05 am

Good, if very sensitive topic Lisa. I'm always interested in this issue as I was born and raised in Ireland, a country which had a blanket ban on abortion until relatively recently and is currently in an enormous legal quagmire relating to legality, constitutionality etc. In that context, there have been disputes, even within the medical profession, in that country as to whether there are any occasions when it is essential to terminate a pregnancy in order to save the life of the mother. Those curious about how such a question could be debated can search the web for the relevant material (Oireachtas report and HELLP would be good keywords). After I had HELLP I began to be glad that I had been sick here in the USA and not back home!

It is a very painful topic as I feel that the individuals forced by circumstance to undergo these procedures are those who would fight tooth and nail to bring their pregnancies to full term and a happy conclusion if they only could. It is important that we never take for granted the availability of appropriate medical care and remain vigilant.

Catherine (37)
DH, Dave (40)
Finn (6)
Lucy (2)
Chloe (7/2/03)

Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by cutieajmom » Sun Nov 02, 2003 02:22 pm

Just so you know...the legislation only concerns abortions that involve delivering just the head of the baby...killing it...then delivering the rest of it. It's even grosser than that, but there are links provided above where you can see exactly what is involved. Also, at 22 weeks if it's a decision of the baby or would be considered an abortion (medically necessary). There is a distinction between "medically necessary" and "choice". I had a miscarriage at 8 weeks with my first pregnancy and the medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. There are a ton of uses for that word...which I wish didn't even have to exist...but it does. Be sure to read up on the "partial birth". I think more people should ask questions like you they can completely understand why people are making the laws that they are making.

Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by lisac » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:13 am

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. Mine was quite similar except I delivered vaginally. It seems there may possibly be a little gray area here.
However, in the case of the recent legistlation maybe it's the "partial birth" part that is referring to a specific technique and as you stated, "the manner in which the fetus is aborted."
You did a great job of conveying the info. w/o being political. Thanks so much.


Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by lawsontx » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:41 am


This is a very biased site to reference, but it explains the procedure.

Now as far as saving the mothers life goes, I can explain from recent personal experience how this is handled. I had what was considered a “medically necessary abortion” when I had my daughter. I was induced, in labor for over 7 hours, and then brought into the operating room for an emergency C-Section. According to abortion is defined as:


a. Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus that is incapable of survival.
b. Any of various procedures that result in such termination and expulsion. Also called induced abortion.
2. The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage.
3. Cessation of normal growth, especially of an organ or other body part, prior to full development or maturation.
4. An aborted organism.
5. Something malformed or incompletely developed; a monstrosity.

The medical staff was calling it a “pregnancy termination” because that is exactly what we were doing. We had to “abort” the pregnancy just like a marine “aborts” a mission. The real issue becomes the manner in which the fetus is aborted. In my case the abortion began when the induction creme was applied to my cervix. The actual abortion happened when I had the C-Section the moment the doctor removed the baby.

I personally don’t consider what I went through to be an “abortion” in the way that most people view it because I delivered a baby. However, a doctor will look at it completely different because we “aborted” the pregnancy. I think that’s the best way I can describe it without bringing politics into it.


Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by lisac » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:40 am

Thanks for your input; I'm sorry the link had to be so incredibly graphic. I really appreciate having this info. and clarification.


Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by lisac » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:36 am

Thanks so much for clarifying what is an incredibly touchy area. So I guess that there is a distinction between abortion and very early induction. It seems that there would/should be.

Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by laura » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:29 am

It is my (limited) understanding that the partial birth ban is on a specific procedure that is infrequently done where the fetus is partially born before they terminate it's life.

This link discusses the various methods of abortion-- it's pretty graphic, so if this is a sensitive subject for anyone, please avoid it. I wish I had:

An induction absolutely would not fall under this new law, and from what I read, partial birth abortions are normally done on women wishing late abortions and babies with mortal congenital abnormalities. hope this helps.

DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)

Re : Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by season » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:19 am

This is a touchy subject. But to clarify, partial birth abortion involves killing the fetus before it's entirely delivered.

Being induced knwoing that there is little to no chance of the baby surviving has got to be very hard to consider. I can only hope that this woulld only be done because it was the only way to save the mother (ie lose both, or just the baby.)

dh Kwame
ds Ezekiel 1/2/02 (34wks due to pre-e)

Very Touchy Subject- abortion mentioned

Post by lisac » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:25 am

First a little disclaimer to say that I bring up this topic not to take a stance one way or another regarding abortion or to begin a discussion on personal views. I only hope for clarification regarding recent "partial birth abortion" legislation that will now go to the supreme court. It seems that congress has barred partial birth abortion w/no exception if the mother's health is at risk.

My question is this: is being induced at say 22 wks (too young for the baby to survive) considered abortion? Is early induction considered abortion?
I certainly hopes that nobody takes offense to this question.