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Fiber
Starting Member
10 Posts |
 Posted - 07/25/2003 : 3:01:09 PM
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hi, I'm new here and just starting to TTC for #2.
I want to do everything I can to avoid pre-E the second time around.
I recently ran across information about a high-protein for pre-E by Dr. Brewer. It's not new but no one bothered to mention it my first time around even though I expressed concern since both my DM and DGrandmother had HELLP and Pre-E respectively.
Anyone using the Brewer diet, or know anything about it?
Mama to Seth Anders 3-30-02 (35 weeks, pre-E, IUGR, 3 lbs.15oz) |
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2003 : 8:05:39 PM
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hey there fiber! Welcome- you are not alone! many of us ended up here out of concern over preeclampsia in a subsequent pregnancy, and we have talked about the Brewers diet a couple of times.
The Preeclampsia Foundation doesn't advocate any particular treatment as good or bad but a couple of us personally are of opinion that the diet doesn't take into account some of the underlying disorders that are associated with PE, that you see women who eat fritos and chug coke and have horrible diets who have healthy pregnancies, and that some of the studies cited by Brewer are VERY old- here's a link to one of the threads talking about it.
http://www.preeclampsia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=287
You might be better served by a preconception consult with a perinatologist, and get screened for underlying disorders-- sometimes women who have had pe- especially severe pe or pe remote from their due date- have problems with underlying hypertension, clotting disorders, or autoimmune disorders. Sometimes, just identifying what the real problems might be goes a long way into making a second pregnancy healthier. Best of luck to you!!
Laura-28
DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/ |
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Fiber
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2003 : 12:34:56 PM
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thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
I agree about PE not being solely diet related. Lots of people with poor diets don't get it.
In my case it seems to be genetic (mother and grandmother had it). My hope about the diet is that if my genetics make me prone to it, the diet might help.
I'll check out the earlier discussion.
Mama to Seth Anders 3-30-02 (35 weeks, pre-E, IUGR, 3 lbs.15oz) |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 08:07:19 AM
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Hi there
I am also curious about the Brewer Diet and have even purchased the book online. I'm pregnant again and my son is now 2 years old. 2 years ago, I had early preeclampsia and gave birth at 32 weeks. However, my blood pressure had started to rise a few weeks before then. I ended up having a c-section and my son was born at 2 1/2 pounds and was IUGR. He was in the NICU for 3 months. In my pathology reports, my placenta was very small for it's gestation and had blood clots in it.
Before I got pregnant this time, I went to an obgyn who specializes in preeclampsia. He orded many, many blood tests (everything from liver function tests, coagulation tests, kidney function tests, blood vitamin levels, enzyme levels, etc.) I think in total they drew about 15 vials of blood. I also did a 24 hour urine catch. All of my tests came back normal and my blood pressure was 110/70 - also normal.
Like I said, I have the brewer diet, and I'm going to follow it a "T". I saw a message that said a lot of the studies that are associated with it are old and outdated. I have to say that I disagree with this. The book was updated and republished in 2000- I don't think that's too outdated. The diet is seems to be sound and very straightfoward. It even stresses and encourages women to find out if they have an unerlying disorder before becoming pregnant again. If you read about pregnancy nutrition, the Brewer Diet doesn't differ much from what you read about in any current pregnancy book.
I know in my last pregnancy I did not eat the quality or the quantity of what's in this "diet" (I don't think it's really a diet, per se, but a sound way of eating). I didn't get enough protein nor did I get enough calcium or calories to sustain a normal pregnancy. I relied on supplements to get my nutrion, and clearly this did not work for me.
I also have friends and sister who gulped down soda, bags of chips, pints of ice cream, etc and didn't have any problems. I think it's just what your body can handle and what is too much stress for your body -- and also how the placenta attaches itself and sustains the pregnancy. I agree that there are a lot of people (and maybe myself when pregnant) with underlying problems like kidney disease, preexisting high blood pressure, blood clotting disorders, enzyme disorders and I truley believe that before embarking on another pregnancy, one should be screened for all of these potential risks. But even if you have a potential risk, you should follow a sound diet that's rich in lean meat, milk, eggs, fruits, vegtables and whole grains and sufficient in calories, it's just common sense.
Before I became pregnant again, and after the birth of my son,I had started to take vitamin supplements - 1000 mg of vitamin C, 400 IU of vitamin E and 400 mg of Folic Acid. With my doctor's approval, I'm contuing these supplements, along with a prenatal vitamin. He also suggested I take 80mg of asprin before bedtime. So, a week ago, at 6 weeks pregnant, I started that.
I think I'll check in to this board to let everyone know how the diet is going and how the pregnancy is coming along. I think it would be interesting to follow.
Fiber... good luck with your pregnancy. Maybe we can compare notes and see how the diet works for us.
Sarah [:)]
Sarah |
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 11:04:10 AM
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Sarah, I respect your choice to do what ever you think you need to do to prevent preeclampsia again, but check out this bibliography for Dr. Brewer- all the studies noted range from 1933-1970's. Perhaps I'm biased, but I perceive that research to be old.
His own research cited is 30 years old. And it looks like a majority of it is not peer reviewed- a huge distinction. They may have re-printed the material recently, but all of the case studies cited are old. He mentions two studies from the 90's- just two studies that are studying something else, not even related to his diet, or any diet!
Also, he mentions things on the website about using diuretics and amphetamines for pe- who here has ever been treated with diuretics or speed? Who has had docs that told them to lose weight? That may have happened twenty years ago, but not now. I was tremendously salt sensitive during both of my hypertensive pregnancies... had I followed his "normal" diet, I would have become ill.
Good for you for choosing to focus on a healthy diet- But I am suspect of any claim that something like this is a panacea for all ills, and even more suspect of any doc who tells women who experience edema that it is "always normal"-- IF you have been following his diet.
Laura-28
DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/ |
Edited by - Laura on 07/27/2003 11:27:00 AM |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 10:25:46 PM
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Sarah,
I think it is great that you have decided to try to prevent preeclampsia with a healthy diet--we absolutely recommend that pregnant women do eat a healthy diet high in fresh fruits, vegetables, etc...
There are several diets that claim to cure preeclampsia and frankly--it is just hard to study a diet because there are so many variables and because the researchers have to rely on women being accurate in their reporting--one woman's healthy diet is not always the same or even as healthy as another's.
I know women who swear by this diet but we haven't studied it--so the Preeclampsia Foundation doesn't endorse it nor discourage its use. The tricky thing in studying such a diet is usually the women who are using it are doing so AFTER experiencing preeclampsia. Studying anything (aspirin, heparin, antihypertensives, etc...) after experiencing preeclampsia is tricky because MOST women don't get it again--even high risk women usually have less than a 50% chance of getting preeclampsia again so if you don't get it--women tend to decide whatever they did differently is "the thing" that cured them. Our perspective here at the Foundation is that you not do anything that might increase your risk--so some of the concerns with the Brewer diet would include excess protein if you develop this disease due to kidney problems. A woman who has compromised kidneys will have trouble handling regular animal protein loads--excessive loads even moreso. It sounds like though you have checked all that out.
A few experts I know think that there may be merit to the Brewer diet--others (most) are quite strongly opposed to it because various aspects of it have been studied and not proven to be significant. The fact is though--what is not significant to a large pool of women--may--individually be extremely significant. One woman may benefit immensely from low dose aspirin--while the large study pool may show it to be unimpressive. SO--I for one would be very interested in hearing how your pregnancy goes. I do know of a group on The Farm who strongly believe preeclampsia is due to malnutrition--however they recommend a vegetarian diet (vegan, I believe) and report a low incidence to nil incidence of preeclampsia among their members. While they note they are midwives--my understanding is they are not nurse midwives. Still--I know them to be very kindhearted and passionate women who believe strongly in their cure for this disease.
I know enough women who are exceptionally good eaters--organic, whole grain, tons of fresh fruits, vegetarians, salmon eaters, etc...to agree with Laura--if one diet were the answer--I would have thought we would have known by now--but--who knows--maybe not.
I do know my mother has had "terminal" breast cancer for five years and believe in my heart of hearts that a healthy vegetarian diet full of fresh organic juice and free of processed sugars and wheat has given us the four and half years past the point where we were told she would "be gone." So--I am the last person to say a diet won't work--rather--the non-profit I run doesn't "endorse" any cure or treatment until it is really truly studied. Laura is right--the Brewer diet references are as old and older than I am--he isn't accepted as an authority by his peers and frankly--he has been pretty unpleasant with us and members of our organization--casting aspersions on our work and our intent. Clearly--he feels very strongly about his diet and feels we haven't given him the proper support--however I find it very inappropriate to suggest that a woman who dies from this disease is responsible for that death because of her poor eating habits--which, unfortunately, is something he has done. Perhaps this is because his own work has been marginalized unfairly. It is hard to know...but I will say that our work here has been reviewed by well over 8 specialists in the field of hypertension in pregnancy and none of them recommend this diet. I would love to hear how it goes--but like Laura--I would caution anyone who thinks there is a cure-all without ensuring that their doctor knows what they are doing--that goes for taking baby aspirin, etc...every week we are called because someone has "found a cure" and we have to weigh it all and have our specialists review it. There is no question that excess weight is a risk factor--so clearly--whatever you can do to safely reduce that is important. I say this because I followed such a diet quite carefully the one time I nearly died as a result of preeclampsia...so frankly, I am a bit reluctant to encourage anyone to put all their eggs in this particular basket. As long as you are seeing a really good doctor who knows you are on this diet--then I am sure everything will turn out well--but I would just encourage you to continue to be vigilant and do let us know how things turn out--I would very much like to hear that for some women that this diet is a cure. That would be wonderful news indeed.
Do take care and keep us updated on your pregnancy--
Anne |
Edited by - annegarrett on 07/27/2003 10:34:17 PM |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 10:49:09 PM
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Alutiiq 98,
I just checked out the bibliography for the reseach background in the book I have and yes, you're right, there are many studies that are quoted and were performed from the 1930's - throughout the '70's... but there are also many from the 1990's. I wouldn't consider those to be too old and outdated.
As for women being told to watch their weight gain throughout pregnancy or women worrying themselves about gaining too much weight, I think this still goes on. I think this results in women not getting enough good nutrion for the duration of their pregnancy. I have lots of friends now who are pregnant and healthy and they're worried about gaining too much weight. I don't think that's particulary healthy. Especially if you're eating the right foods to begin with. As for women beging treated with diuretics for high blood pressure, I don't know if this happens anymore, probably not. I don't think in my last posting I said I was following a "high sodium" diet. All of the foods I mentioned were whole foods: eggs, milk, lean meat, fruits, veggies and whole grains. I didn't say I was adding lots of sodium to my diet. Nor does the Brewer Diet advocate that. The only thing he says is you can salt your food to taste. And, in normal and most "high-risk" pregnancies, sodium restricion isn't practiced either. Maybe you have a speical case. Everybody's different.
I'm not saying that a diet is a "panacea for all ills" in fact, that's not what I said in my last posting either. Before I embarked on this pregnancy, I had all of the tests done to determine if I had an underlying medical condition. I had all of the liver function tests done, blood clotting, kindney function, I also had an echocardiogram, urinalysis, vitamin levels, enzyme levels, etc. I had the total workup. After I found out that everything was funtioning normally (while in a non-pregnant state), I checked with my doctor about the Brewer Diet. He said it was a very sound diet and gave me the go-ahead to follow it. I'm also taking supplements and asprin. I haven't diagnosed myself, I've found myself a specialist, I'm seeing the doctor every 3 weeks for the duration of the pregancy and I feel following this diet is just extra insurance for a healthy pregnancy.
As for edema being normal in pregnancy, it is in fact normal, IF you don't have proteinura, high blood pressure and have normal results in your blood work. All edema is not the same. All Dr. Brewer says is that if you're properly nourished and you don't have an unerlying disorder, your edema is a normal part of pregnancy.
As for the posting from Fiber, I would also suggest that she sees a high-risk specialist before embarking on another pregnancy. It seems like preeclampsia runs in her family since her grandmother and DM had HELLP and Pre-E. That will give her at least some piece of mind for the next time around.
I personally don't know why people on this site seem so opposed to trying to change the way they eat. The Brewer "Diet" isn't any different from any nutrition advice you'd get from any preganancy book. In fact, I have The Pregnancy Book by Dr. Sears, The New Pregnancy and Childbirth book by Sheila Kitzinger, What to Expect when You're Expecting and others... and they all cover nutrition during pregnancy. And you know what, none of them contradict what the Brewer diet stesses. They all cite that proper nutition is very important and they all recommend that you eat the same kinds of foods that the Brewer diet suggests you eat: eggs, milk, lean meat, fruits & veggies and whole grains.
Sarah [:)]
Sarah |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 11:01:47 PM
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Hi Anne,
Thanks for your posting. I must have posted my response to at the same time you posted your response to me, because when I went to post, I saw your posting.
I liked what you had to say and I agree that a diet isn't a cure-all for anything. I'm just giving it a shot - under the supervision of a high-risk specialist. I'm hoping that for me, it will be the "smoking-gun" as to why this happened to me in the firt time around. I know I did not follow a balanced, healthy, calorie rich diet the first time around and I'm hoping that it doesn't happen again, or if it does, my baby will have gotten the best nutrition and had the best opportunity to grow as big as possible before we have to give birth.
Thanks for your response,
Sarah
Sarah |
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Fiber
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 12:34:53 PM
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thanks for all the responses. I'm taking them all to heart. My main goal is to be as healthy as possible going into this and to avoid PE again if possible. The Brewer Diet, from what I can see is similar to other pregnancy diets. The two eggs per day seems a bit much but otherwise it seems reasonable. I was shocked when I saw the number of servings listed for different food types, but when I check the book out from the library it listed the number of ounces that equal a serving and it really isn't as much food as I'd thought.
I agree that there is no cure all diet and that there are probably many factors involved in PE. I certainly wouldn't follow the diet if it was contradictory to what my doctor or midwife suggested. For example, the issue about protein and kidney problems that was mentioned. Fortunately, my PE came late and was only high bp (extremely high, though I can't remember the numbers now) and some protein in the urine. None of my organs were affected.
I do think that Sarah is doing the right thing by improving her diet if her diet during pregnancy #1 was poor. I don't think it can hurt.
Mama to Seth Anders 3-30-02 (35 weeks, pre-E, IUGR, 3 lbs.15oz) |
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deerhart
Missouri State Coordinator
USA
3604 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 3:09:25 PM
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I don't think anyone was saying that people shouldn't eat healthy while pregnant.
But, one diet is not healthy for all, period. We are all different people with different needs and I would have very little problems saying that a nutrionist would not typically put a normal person on the brewer diet.
I personally could not eat or follow that diet as its way way way to much for me and I eat alot of calories as it is.
The issue is that idea that ONE SINGLE diet is the answer. its really not. My typical diet is really not that far off of the brewer diet (I have less milk and less eggs, and never ever liver) and its been that way for years and years. I ate extremely well almsot all of my life. I always had to I was an athelete. Tons of fresh food, little red meat etc..
The question to ask is is this diet right for me or healthy for me. For me the answer would be no, the brewer diet is too many calaries for me and would cause me to gain an excessive amount of weight that after birth I would not be able to lose becuase of the higher calorie intake.
If someone is worried that they aren't eating healthy enough for themselves and their baby, they need to seek out a nutrionist who can design a diet for them, that takes into account thier likes/dislikes, current body weight, build, needed calorie intake etc.. to reach that goal.
That is not saying that diet isn't important at all, its instead saying that diet is an individual thing and needs to be suited and created for that individual, not a one size covers all thing.
Erin |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 10:14:43 PM
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Well said Erin.
Anne |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 05:57:59 AM
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Okay, this is my last posting to this topic - I promise!
All I did when I responded to a posting by Fiber about if anyone had heard of the Brewer Diet, was say that I had heard about the Brewer Diet and that I was following it. I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on T.V. I was just giving my humble opinion! In response to Erin's posting, I never said in any of my postings that the Brewer Diet was THE ONE diet to follow when you're pregnant. All I said was that it's very similar to what you read in other pregnancy books about pregnancy nutrition. I do think that a midwife, doctor or nutritionist might come up with a very similar plan to follow while you're pregnant. In fact, in Dr. Brewer's book, he has vegetarian plans and vegan plans to follow if you're opposed to eating animal products - so you'd never have to touch liver if you didn't want to.
I'm very surprised that a topic about nutrition, the Brewer Diet, specifically, could evoke so much negativity. What's the deal with that? Are we all looking so much for the high-tech solution to our problems? I mean, after I ruled out all of the serious medical situations that might have caused my preeclampsia... and I believe everybody should do this before they decide to have another baby... (diabetes, high blood pressure, clotting disorders, heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease), I turned inward to see if there were any changes I could make to be a healthier person and to have the healthiest pregnancy possible. I don't know why this has caused people to react so negatively. I find it very strange.
Sarah
Sarah |
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deerhart
Missouri State Coordinator
USA
3604 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 07:44:51 AM
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You may not have said it, but HE does.
I think its the implications on his website
its things like this
When you understand what a good pregnancy diet is and how important good foods really are, you will be able to protect yourself and your baby from many complications.
That imply that woman who get PE don't understand good nutrition and didn't eat well.
or this
A good diet will protect you and your baby from MTLP. A good diet will protect you and your baby from Abruption of the Placenta. A good diet will protect you and your baby from miscarriages.
That implys that if you eat well you don't need to worry about PE and other complications which hasn't been proven at all imo and gives woman a false sense of security who then might ignore warning signs because they ate well they can't POSSIBLY get these.
and this
Every day of the week, you and your baby must have:
This statement alone implys that if you don't eat what he states then your not eating right which isn't true.
Looking at the items he has you eating and the portions they would make me sick
Your drinking 2x's the daily recommended amount of milk for an adult, your eating 3 pats of butter (which I do beleive that a pat = 1tsp which 3 pats equates to about half a stick a butter a day), plus 2 eggs (anyway, but eggs are typically fried which adds more grease and fat typically)
Not only is this diet high in protien, but it is also high in things like fats, calories, and can adversaly cause you to gain weight that you may not be able to remove easily because its not baby weight but true fat because of the calories.
You only need 300 more calories a day while pregnant.
Its alot less about the diet, but alot more about how he presents the information as imp misleading, granting a false sense of security, and trying to scare woman to do something that I think is not as healthy for them as he makes it out to be.
It does make me wonder though if anyone has followed the brewer diet to a T, had something happen and then sued him. I do know woman who followed the diet and had PE reoccurance, but I am not sure how closely they followed it and I guess that would be the hardest thing to document (this person also gained 80+ lbs before PE set in).
I question alot of the information that he provides because it rings so against everything else I have read/seen, etc.. I am also by nature wary of ANYTHING that is a catch all. Reminds me so much of the magic syrups that used to be sold back in the 1800's that cured everything from headaches to pneaumonia, to colds, to stubbed toes.
But I also have the knowledge that I ate extrodinarly well in both my pregnancies and still got PE, so the thought that its caused by a lack of nutrition and that eating right will protect you 100% I know is bull.
Thats like saying if you eat extremely well you will never get sick nor will you ever get cancer, or if you exercise you will never get sick nor will you ever get cancer.
It leaves out several important things.
Genetics
Environment
These 2 items when dealing with conditions and diseases of the body are very important.
Diet is important and a good diet does help reduce illness etc, but it does not prevent it.
So yes, some of us are oversensitive to the idea that someone makes promises that you will not get PE based only on part of the picture, I for one feel that woman are being lulled into a false sense of security, might ignore symptomns, and might miss something that leads to a bad outcome. His site and wording also implys blame on the woman who suffered from this which just adds to the guilt we naturally feel when we have this condition.
In other words, the diet may be great, but the presentation is ALL wrong, it makes unfounded promises and it blames.
Thats enough for me to be more hostile to it.
Erin
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 11:20:50 AM
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I agree with Erin- it's not the notion that nutrition is important that riles us- it's THIS MAN SPECIFICALLY. Most reputable scientists don't have promotional websites that look and sound like an infomercial. Still, despite his shoddy, outdated science, and ridiculous hyperbole, a certain segement of the "unhindered living"/labor to the sound of the whales/doctors are butchers contingent takes his word as gospel- and endanger women's lives by underestimating the origin and complexity of the disease.
In my opinion- 'malnutrition' theories like this (perhaps specifically this one, I'm not sure)helped my first midwife nearly kill me by blowing off my hypertension and swelling until I was nearly in kidney failure. And I'm not the only one- I've read where midwives, referencing this Brewer diet, advise each other to modify sick women's diets by adding protien instead of running 24 hr urines or monitoring their blood pressure or refering them to a perinatologist- after all , it's not illness, it's malnutrition. Well, people die from that attitude.
Now, if the nutrition theory was accurate- why are preeclampsia rates constant throughout the world- and places where they have healthy diets and ample food have comparable preeclampsia rates as places of famine?
Preeclampsia is primarily a disease of first time mothers. 85% of cases of PE are in primagravidas- since the 'cause' of preeclampsia is malnutrition and a starved liver, does that mean that the low rates of recurrence are indicative that the women involved drastically improved their diets in subsequent pregnancies?
Does Dr. Brewers "0%" rates include women with lupus, kidney disease, or clotting disorders? No? Well, how can he tell? A great number of women with underlying disorders are asymptomatic during their childbearing years, as the illness will emerge later. How is Brewer able to screen these women out, since for many of them, there are no clinical indications of their underlying disorders? You said that perhaps my salt sensitivity made me a "special case" but really, 0% doesn't permit for "special cases"
And most importantly- why is Dr. Brewer so resistant to follow the normal channels of scientific/academic inquiry? Anyone can write a book or set up a website declaring that they have the "answer"- it's the ability of other people to replicate your results in a controlled setting that establishes proof. Now, for whatever reason, he is unable or unwilling to do this.
YOU are not saying his diet is one size fits all- but HE is. And 0% is not negotiable- he's either right, or he's wrong- HE hasn't permitted himself much leeway. Well, the problem is that I just don't believe 0%. And if he's wrong about that, he's wrong about it all.
It's great that you have good enough medical care that you can dabble in this- if this guy is wrong, then you're still covered. Well, I'd say a huge part of the problem is that many of us are having a hard time finding providers with sufficient knowledge about the disease competent to help us. We're not covered to begin with.
If you have a personal belief that this may help, then go for it- but as far as I'm concerned it has too little scientific proof backing it up and too many unanswered questions for us all to blithely jump on the bandwagon with you. And the problem is, if you follow what he says, and he's wrong, the potential loss is not face or ego- it's life.
Laura-28
DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/ |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 12:41:25 AM
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Okay... this is the last posting, I really promise this time!
I'd just like to quote directly from Dr. Brewer's introduction in his book - not cheezy website.
"I want to make it clear that not all pregnancy problems are related to diet, but in this book I want to make clear which ones are... because these problems have solutions. In my view this is the best part of the Brewer Pregnancy Diet: it empowers you to do the best possible for yourself and your baby."
Sample menu plan - 3,300 calories
Breakfast: orange juice, corned beef hash with an egg, bran muffin w/pat of butter
Mid morning snack: yogurt with fresh fruit
Lunch: salad nicoise, whole wheat or rye crackers or bread, milk
mid afternoon snack: peanuts, almonds, salted, milk
Dinner: spinach salad, moroccan chicken (with almonds, prunes and apricots) cous-cous, milk
Dessert: honey sponge cake
Middle of the night snack: piece of cheese, hard boiled egg, slice of meat, something left over from dinner, to keep your blood sugar up and avoid a lightheaded feeling first thing in the a.m.
So, that's a sample menu he gives for a day on the Brewer Diet. I've been subsituting the hash with oatmeal and fruit and a hard boiled egg for breakfast. There are also vegan and vegatarian options. It doesn't sound that over the top to me. Doesn't sound like too much food to me either. Maybe I eat more than other women on this chat board, I don't know. I'm not overweight though, and I haven't gained much since I've been pregnant - 8 weeks now.
I also resent a little bit (not a little bit, but a lot) being referred to as the "unhindered living/labor to the sound of whales/doctors that are butchers contingent that take his word as gospel" that's just rude and untrue. I'm follwing a diet, that's all. One that doesn't differ much from any other pregnancy nutrition guide that you would find in any other pregancy book. I went though the same horrific illness that is preeclampsia that everyone else on this site has suffered.I was extremely sick with preeclampsia, was swollen beond recognition, had extremely high blood pressure and kidney failure. I had a c-section at 32 weeks and gave birth to a 2.5 pound son who was in the NICU for 3 months. Do you think I don't understand what the illness is all about? What women's suffering is like who have this illness? The fear and trepidation of embarking on another pregnancy and what might happen? What it's like to be the mother of a preemie? You're very rude, wrong and angry to imply that I don't understand and that I think doctors are butchers.
Jeez, I think the next time I have something to say on this board, I'll keep my mouth shut! [:(!]
Sarah |
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 02:29:45 AM
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Sarah, If you read carefully, you'd see that the comments I made were not directed at you- I am concerned about the element of providers-- in my personal case midwives- who underestimate the causes of preeclampsia and do not refer sick patients to doctors because they read stuff like Dr. Brewer. That's who I was talking about. I was not talking about you- quite honestly, I don't understand how you got that. I said there was a militant contingent that takes his word as gospel- why on earth would you think that group includes you?
Now, if you were a provider, who had a patient who had preeclampsia, and you didn't run tests, and blew off concerns and told her that she should eat better because that's why she's sick, and didn't refer her to a doctor, and made disparaging comments about the doctor's decision to intervene, then yes I am referring to you. Unabashedly and unrepentantly. I doubt it though, unless you're the person who helped muck out my first pregnancy and tried to sell me protein supplements as I got sicker instead of treating me.
Obviously, you're not a provider. You're seeing a perinatologist. You're educating yourself about the disease. You're doing what you can not to get sick. You're not who I'm talking about.
This thread started because someone asked us what we thought of the diet- and some of us don't support it for various reasons, and we tried to leave it at that, and in the past have been able to do that. I think it's ok to carefully examine the available evidence, and disagree with something without being at risk of narrowmindedness- which, (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong)- seemed to be your implication.
I personally have very strong feelings about the diet-- I developed them a long time before I ever came here, and I try to hide that vehemence (poorly at times) until someone forces the issue. My opinions don't necessarily have a thing to do with the opinions of anyone else here but myself. If we have come to any kind of consensus, it was unintended.
This has certainly been a learning experience, and I know now to avoid the subject completely when it comes up in the future. I am sorry if you felt that my comments were personal to you-- they were certainly not intended as such.
Laura-28
DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/ |
Edited by - Laura on 08/01/2003 02:42:30 AM |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 03:35:50 AM
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Even though your comment was directed at health care providers, it was pretty strong language and seemed to imply that if I agreed with aspects of Dr. Brewer's diet, that I also was in that category. That's how I could possibly think that that group included me.
Narrowmindedness runs both ways. I'm just exploring the possibility that nutrition might have something to do with preeclampsia. I seem to be in the minority on this site. I'm trying to combine nutrition (maybe in your eyes, an alternative practice) with seeing a high-risk specialist and following his orders.
This has been a learning experience for me as well. Dr. Brewer seems to stir up a lot of passion in people on this site and maybe it's better if I avoid the conversation in future as well.
Sarah |
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 08:29:24 AM
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Sorry, I won't apologize for the strong language- but I will reiterate that it was not directed at you- I have a profound disregard for people who place the quality of the birth experience over the safety of it (in high risk pregnancies alone), and when the people we count on to tell the difference between the two cannot because of personal agendas. Honestly, those words are mild compared to what I really think.
If anyone else still takes issue with my phraseology, they are welcome to email me personally to discuss it, as my personal take on that contingent really has little to do with preeclampsia, and is distracting from the discussion at hand.
I never argued that nutrition wasn't an important part of pe- we weren't discussing nutrition in general, we we were discussing the Brewer Diet specifically.
I've said for months that I think there might be something in the oxidative stress theory and I am watching the antioxidant supplement use with great interest- and have myself been taking them with my multivitamin...
I also deliberately eat a diet heavy in green leafy vegetables rich with the B family of vitamins, and try to limit my carbohydrates and refined sugar intake in a futile attempt to corral the PCOS/insulin resistant link to preeclampsia. Again, I think diet is important (which I've been saying all along) just not this one.
Laura-28
DH Jack-30
Allie 5-13-98 (35 weeks-pre-e)
Baby Camille 4-17-03 (36 weeks- htn and oligo)
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/ |
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deerhart
Missouri State Coordinator
USA
3604 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 10:26:15 AM
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HOLY COW 3300 calories a day!
Thats around 2x's the recommended intake for an adult and well over 1000 more calories then recommended for a pregnant woman (1600-2200 is avg for adult woman 1900-2500 is avg for a pregnant woman).
Heck i didn't eat that many calories a day when I was playing basketball and averaging 3-4 hous of strenous exercise daily, and I ate a ton (about 2500-2700 calories a day)
http://www.usda.gov/cnpp/DietGd.pdf
The recommended daily calorie intake and servings are on page 16-17 of the PDF
I think when you look at the brewer diet there is a lot more you have to take into consideration. What about your health AFTER the pregnancy. Every 10 calories a day you don't burn equates to adding 1 lb a year (so 3650 calories unspent =1 lbs). We also know that the body likes to hold on to fat versus dropping it.
Thus if your body uses 2300 calories a day pregnant, and you eat an extra 1000 calories over that, you are gaining 1lb ever 3.6 days. If you start the diet preconception (because you never know when its going to happen) so your on the diet for a full year (3 months preconception, 9 months of pregnany) you have 365000 unspent calories for that year that results in pure added weight in the form of fat.
That is 100lbs that you gained purly from your diet and doesn't include the natural weight you gain in pregnancy.
Thats 100lbs you will need to lose after the baby's born that will not just fall away because its not weight from excess fluids, baby.
Gaining that much weight can be just as unhealthy to your body as not eating well. Even if your eating all the right foods, if your eating in excess of what your boy needs your still eating unhealthy.
Erin |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 6:32:19 PM
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Okay--I think I will step in here. First of all--this is one thread on a site with some 4000+ postings--so it would be entirely inaccurate to say that "we" (I use that term to include all posting here) are opposed to a healthy diet. I think that has been said over and over again. The opinions of three women do not represent the whole website. I am not saying any opinions are wrong--just reminding us all to get some perspective here.
I feel terrible that Sarah feels attacked. That is not what we are about here. The strong feelings expressed are concerns about the doctor who is stating them. There are also concerns about the diet. Both of these concerns are valid. We do not know if the diet helps women or not--but several good points on both sides were raised.
I want to say that I hope neither Sarah, nor Alutiq or others at any time will feel that they cannot voice their opinion here. This is why we are here--to share ideas--some of them are going to be contentious. I think it is a mistake to personalize these feelings as an attack--women here, Sarah, you should remember, have lost their babies. Those women are going to feel very attacked when someone says (like Brewer does--and I know he does--he has written me this) that "if you just ate right, you would not have had this disease." Without even really realizing it that is what women read when we hear of this amazing diet. OR they think--"if I had only known." The fact is--we don't know.
The diet is really high in calories--exceptionally high in protein--and this disease compromises your kidneys. As obesity is a risk factor--as you gain weight, it could add to the risk of the disease. It is not a risk I personally would take--but that doesn't mean I know enough to argue the merits of the disease, or think Sarah is wrong. I would be very interested, as I said before, to know how it goes. I certainly don't like that anyone feels attacked.
That said--what I know--and some of the women posting here know--is that this particular doctor has been very very unkind not just to us, but to others who work with us. I personally have received hundreds of letters from him---they are scrawled on with various colored pens, every margin filled with incomprehensible comments--including calling myself, and several of the doctors whom I personally know and who donate their time to our work--terrible names and inferring that they think they are God or Christ, and are responsible for killing women. The man is willing to say for ex: that a particular woman who died died because of her own failure to eat properly. THIS kind of burden to that poor woman's family and her motherless infant--is reprehensible and THAT is where the hostility you are getting is coming from. It is inappropriately being aimed at you because you innocently came here and said--"hey--I am going to do this diet."
I have to be honest--I don't think it is a safe diet for a women with a history of preeclampsia--whether you have had all the screening tests or not. It is a disease that compromises your kidneys... Maybe my personal disbelief is colored by the man. He has been so unprofessional and questionable in his personal judgement that it makes me question his professional judgement. I cannot even share with you or this board the kinds of things specifically he has said--but trust me--they are not professional, and definitely not kind. I question his judgement. THAT said--I still defend your right to try this. We don't know if it works or not--and so I am eager to hear how it goes for you. My personal opinion is NOT the opinion of the Foundation and we would be happy to hear it is successful. Most importantly though--Laura is very right--this disease occurs across the board in the world--if diet was the issue--it would occur at different rates depending on the region. Presumably the US would be less likely to have preeclampsia--as opposed to someplace where there is famine and starvation is an issue. Women in poverty in the US are NOT protein deprived--quite the opposite, witness McDonalds. In fact, there is apparently even some research that preeclampsia went down during the war--when women had less protein due to rations.
I don't know. This is the whole big Atkins diet argument that is so contentious in the rest of the world. Still--I am sorry you have felt attacked. I think we all want to have this be a safe place for women to express their opinions. I for one--as I mentioned about my mom--started out with the desire to do a home birth. I am a vegetarian, and am very open-minded about diet and exercise. Of course we want the women here to eat well and get their weight under control. There is no question that making sure everything you can do is being done. There is a big difference though between his high calorie, high protein diet that is not what OBs recommend, and a normal pregnancy diet that is.
So you know, my best friend delivered her four in the tub at home (separately, thank god!) and if I could have--I would have. I took classes in hypnobirthing and followed a diet like Brewers during my third pregnancy. Twelve hours into my labor--with my hypnobirthing working fine--my kidneys started to fail and I nearly died--I had the Brewer book and was following the Brewer diet. I cannot encourage women to take the risk that I did. What you must appreciate is that we all want something to be "it" and for those of us--who walked, did yoga, ate all the eggs, butter, and protein, etc...and then had this fail...it makes it hard to hear someone say--this is what I think will work for me. I hope it does. That's what we all want--for this NOT to happen. What I do want you to appreciate is the anger you are picking up is the anger of loss--and the frustration that someone inadvertantly suggested we had failed. About 25% of the women who post on this forum have lost a baby. The hostility is at the man who suggests that we have done something or failed to do something that had such an incredible price. I know you certainly don't mean that--I really get that. I hope you all can appreciate that we are all fighting the same evil--not one another and our various theories--but this **** disease.
This is an important and really valid debate. Don't let some contention prevent you from exploring the truth behind one another's arguments.
Take care and please feel free to email me privately about this--if you wish.
Anne |
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amandab
Junior Member
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 7:31:49 PM
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Anne,
I really appreciate you taking the time to reiterate that one of the puposes of this board is to share opinions. I am a member of another board where the moderators shut down any topic that has gotten even the least bit heated. Every week there is at least one post from the moderators reminding everyone that messageboards are only for positive discussions. I keep thinking, "If only every day of my life was positive..."
I am part of the 25% as you all know, and as I mentioned recently, it is very hard to read the board sometimes. There are many, many posts and even whole topics that I cannot read b/c it is just too painful. But I know in my heart that every woman is here for the same purpose, and thus I never feel attacked. I know that all of us are at different points in the journey... some have lost babies, some have not, some have had PE multiple times, some only once. And all of our experiences are going to shape our opinions and thus our posts.
So what I am trying to say is... I am thankful that there are so many women that want to share what they have learned. I have learned TONS from this board! And I am very thankful that there are so many passionate posters. I've even been one of them a time or two. Passion is what is going to find a cure for PE! So thank you, thank you for encouraging continued discussion!!
Okay, that said... I really enjoy these debates about how to prevent PE or reduce the odds of recurrance. I'm pretty conservative, though. I know next time around, I will stick with the things that seem to have proven out somewhat over time... Vitamin C (which I am already on to help control my BP), baby aspirin, and close monitoring. I think I was very healthy during my pregnancy. I did the yoga and the 30 minutes of walking a day. I did crave junk food, but I made sure I got plenty of healthy foods at each meal also. I drank tons of water and tons of milk. So to think that I did something wrong is incomprehensible to me. And I also don't want to try something my doctor finds controversial b/c if I have a bad outcome next time, I will always wonder, "What if I just didn't try that controversial thing??" But like I said I am pretty conservative. I still like to read about the things other people plan on trying, but I also like to read the opinions against those things.
Whew! I'm long winded on this topic!
Amanda
Aidan Timothy b 4/14/03 at 29 wks (angel) |
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Kim
Texas State Coordinator
USA
849 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2003 : 10:07:20 PM
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Sarah,
I agree with Anne and feel that all women should just "be" healthy-- and what it takes to get there is different for every person...
Secondly, I think maybe some of the strong feelings from some of the other women on this board may come from this. A lot of us (Laura, I know for sure) have also suffered from a debilitating pregnancy condition called hyperemesis gravidarum. For me, I was unable to eat anything remotely healthy and relied on medications, IV's and tube feedings to make it through the pregnancy. But, in the end, I delivered a gigantic for gestational age baby.
That said, it's really hard for those of us who suffer from hg to see this man say that we are in control of the whole situation. I, personally, vomited 20x times a day at my worst and the only thing I could hold down were grilled cheese sandwiches and soda. I lost 20 pounds in the first trimester...
Anyway, I think most of us here are all for healthy eating (I know I am, especially after my hg experience), but for me, this guy just strikes a tender nerve, since my whole pregnancy revolved around lack of nutrition, etc.. and I had no control over it.
It sounds like you are informed and have good doctors, which is the most important way to protect your baby.
Take Care,
Kim
Ainsley Kathryn 11/26/02-36 Weeks Preeclampsia
http://home.austin.rr.com/schwintz |
Edited by - Kim on 08/01/2003 10:10:46 PM |
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Joni
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 1:06:41 PM
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Dear Sarah,
I came across your postings on this forum in a very circuitous way. I was simply using a google search to look for a version of Dr Brewer's
diet which someone had told me was available for vegans. As a professional caregiver I received a call from a vegetarian mom seeking counsel to improve her eating. I got caught up in the exchange of mails on this subject and was aghast at the condescending treatment you received. To that end, I actually signed up so that I would have access to your profile and could write to tell you!
I have been a childbirth educator, doula and midwife for 20 years and thankfully NEVER run into preeclampsia which frankly makes my track
record better than your list mates! Grin. I suspect none of them are aware of a book entitled "The Five Standards for Safe Childbearing" by
David Stewart Phd. The five include; good nutrition, skillful midwifery, natural childbirth, homebirth, and breastfeeding.
Many of those components may not align with your personal belief system about birth (nor am I going to proselytize about them)
but I would like to substantiate the belief that you have expressed and that is that nutrition certainly can positively influence birth outcomes!
I sense as did you that many of these woman abdicated themselves from their participation in their wellbeing and in their births.
A caregiver can't safeguard the mom from her own nutritional errors. He/she can guide her, make suggestions, but ultimately it is the mom who controls
what she ingests and what her baby receives.
Without good nutrition the effectiveness of all the other standards are significantly compromised. I so appreciate the quote attributed to Mayer Eisenstein,
"If I had my choice between 1000 well nourished women giving unattended homebirth versus 1000 malnourished women delivered by the utmost specialist,
for healthier babies I would place my money on the 1000 unattended women who ate right."
I think the fact that you acknowlege your nutritional failings last time around is an incredibly brave thing to do. To decide to improve upon it so that it won't
be a factor this time around is what growing up is all about!! Bad diets are linked to stillborn babies, low birth weight babies, premature babies, and
infection prone babies. Your list mates can decry this fact all that they want and deny personal responsibilty too for that matter but the fact remains is that
a better nourished mom doesn't have to feel guilty about her lousy habits IF she were to encounter any of above problems in her baby and a poorly nourished
mom can't absolve herself quite so easily!
If they don't like Dr Brewer as their source of info they can try the March of Dimes instead.
"Low birth weight is the cause of the greatest number of deaths in the first year of life and it the major cause of disability in childhood."
Do I know how many of those are directly attributable to poor maternal nutrition? No. Do I believe that many could have been averted by better nutrition? Definitely.
If members of the forum don't agree they can carry on with whatever eating habits they used last time but my caution would be to ask, "did they serve you well then?"
It seems that some of your list mates believe that testing is the only way to health. Sorry but NO amount of prenatal blood sampling, urine testing, ultrasonagraphy,
amniocentesis, or other physical evaluations can substitute for good eating. Work in tandem with it? Yes, Support it? Yes. But not replace it.
These techniques and devices are DIAGNOSTIC. They do not heal, they do not treat, they do not nourish and they do not prevent the problems.
Early detection can be a God send. But it doesn not serve as prevention. I don't say it is too late to correct but it is too late to prevent if the analysis comes back
with results saying the mother is lacking x,y or z
As many of the list mates have so intimately experienced .....it may not be too late for intravenous injections, bed rest, cesarean surgery, neonatal intensive care.
But why complacently just wait and see how the pregnancy develops rather than taking the initiative by eating better? No amount of technology can make up for
the loss of nutrients to a malnourished mother and baby in pregnancy.
I hope you receive care from a professional who will honor and respect your desire to make positive change in your life. Your babies are fortunate to have an advocate
like you.
Saludos,
Joni Nichols
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ileana
Senior Member
USA
1145 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 1:36:01 PM
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Unfortunately Joni, Sarah had a miscarriage a few weeks into her pregnancy... This has definitely nothing to do with her diet or her care. It just happens.
Lots of us lost our babies. Some of us had babies with very low weight. I assure you that we deeply care about these babies and that we would have done anything to keep them alive and well. We are committed to have a great diet. We all think diet is extremmely important. We believe in good nutrition. Unfortunately preeclampsia happens. It happens despite the diet or the midwife care.
Don't talk to us about natural childbirth and homebirth! We will advocate for skilled medical assisted pregnancies, with deliveries in the hospital. We were close to death. Some of us thought about a home birth. Lots of us wanted a natural birth. I seriously considered hiring a doula to help with my birth. We all wish we lived in a world where your 5 rules were possible for everyone. This world is not one of those.
As a midwife educator, doula and midwife, you should learn a little more about preeclampsia. You can start on this site. Start with the stories.
Ileana 33
Angel stillborn 24w p-e 2/17/03 |
Edited by - ileana on 09/01/2003 1:37:38 PM |
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deerhart
Missouri State Coordinator
USA
3604 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 4:07:01 PM
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| NM it's not even worth it. |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 8:35:17 PM
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Joni,
I appreciate your weighing in, however I am troubled that the tone on this forum strikes you as condescending. I imagine some of us are--we have very strong opinions--however I searched through this thread with great care and found no one saying that she advocated ignoring the importance of diet--in fact--I found numerous citations of women saying how important it was and that that was NOT the issue.
I appreciate you feel Sarah needed support and defending. We are all adults here and I was very impressed with how Sarah handled some very vigourous debate. She was tactful, thoughtful and made an effort to be responsive to the individual differences raised. I think she handled herself admirably and even rose above some more heated comments when required.
Saying that the March of Dimes says that "Low birth weight is the cause of the greatest number of deaths in the first year of life and it the major cause of disability in childhood," does not equal Dr. Brewer being right. I can ASSURE you that the March of Dimes truly does not support the Brewer Diet. I know--I just recently met with their Assistant Medical Director. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean he is wrong.
It does not say that LBW is directly caused by a woman failing to eat the Brewer diet--eat 3300 calories a day and potentially dangerous levels of protein, it does not unfairly and unkindly enter a forum of survivors of a devastating disease--a large percentage of whom (25%) have lost their babies--and flatly say that the women who had this had a direct hand in it. I am appalled that someone with your professional background would suggest that our women are "abdicat(ing) themselves from their participation in their wellbeing and in their births."
I am sure the fact that you haven't had much experience with preeclampsia is largely to due with your good care, your experience with childbirth and your caring nature. I can't imagine you would look a client in the eye and tell her that she lost her baby because she abdicated herself from participation in her wellbeing. Tell that to this woman:
http://www.preeclampsia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1048
Shame on you.
The fact also is that people INSIDE the Brewer group have admitted that he is not entirely lucid. I for one am quite uncomfortable advising women to take medical advice from a man who does not seem to be entirely "all there". I have, in my office, over 300 postcards and letters from this doctor, with imaginary names and return addresses on the envelope, written in several different colored pens, covering every white corner of the paper, illegible script, with insults like "Nazi" and accusations of murdering babies and women, and bizarre ramblings that IF you can read them don't even make sense.
Our organization cannot--in good conscience--endorse the work that has not been proven scientifically. IF you would have read our forum--you will see we don't recommend Aspirin, Heparin, Calcium, Antihypertensives, or even BEDREST. WE don't endorse things that are still open to debate. There is no question that his diet clearly falls in that camp. The fact is that Dr. Brewer's Diet has been studied and has not really been demonstrated to be successful. DESPITE this--I have on several occasions here said we don't know--and that women should, if they want, and with the guidance of their health care professionals, give it a try. We just heard of a woman who had HELLP last time and who had a very safe waterbirth at home with a 9# baby after following the Brewer diet. You will not find me saying he is right or wrong--we are just saying we don't endorse it.
There is no question (if you will see--my very last post was about the importance of a proper diet and losing excess weight prior to conception) that we strongly feel that a healthy diet is critical.
And for the record--yes--I am quite aware of the Stewart book and other excellent books (IMO)--including Adelle Davis, Diet for a Small Planet, etc...because in fact, I am extremely health conscious and at the time was a vegan. Funny though--that this did not prevent me from getting preeclampsia three times. Ironic given that I was in hypno-birthing classes and had an excellent midwife whom I loved and who really helped me immensely. Sad really because, unlike my best friend who delivered four babies in the tub at home--I was in the hospital having acute renal failure because my MIDWIFE realized I needed to get to the hospital. She would be the first person to tell you that I take great care with my diet, I drink filtered water, I wake every morning to a meditation tape (no Laura, not whales singing...though likely I am the sort who would own that [;)]), I limit tv, violence, read to my children, recycle, compost, attend church, love my neighbor, eat organic, drink in moderation, and juice religiously.
We are not a bunch of techno-freaks who think a pill or a test is the cure. We are seeking answers in a safe and protected forum--one that is meant to be for membership to survivors. MY job is to make sure that all members here exchange information in a compassionate and thoughtful manner. I would like to think that this forum was a place where people can use their commonsense and pick and choose from good advice from people who recognize that women come here with a variety of experiences and traumas--and who sensitively and responsibly share their own experiences. This is a forum for preeclampsia survivors--not for people who are pushing an agenda--we won't allow doctors to push their research here (even doctors on our own medical board) and we won't allow salesmen to sell Juice products...we exchange information based on what happened to us.
Unless you personally have had preeclampsia or DO have preeclampsia, you are on the wrong board.
If you had ever had preeclampsia--I think you would have read the posts with more care and certainly more compassion.
Anne |
Edited by - annegarrett on 09/04/2003 5:21:19 PM |
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Kim
Texas State Coordinator
USA
849 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 9:01:34 PM
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This is what the Preeclampsia Foundation is for. To educate those who come in contact with possible preeclampsia situations. I pray to God that this women doesn't come into contact with a pre-e woman. It makes my blood boil to hear someone condescend others who were near death and either lost babies or have babies with problems. I would hope that a "childbirth educator, doula and midwife," would certainly have enough compassion AND experience to know that eating a few nuts and berries isn't going to change everything. I am also seriously concerned that their our other's out there with this sort of education.
Edited to include that I had hyperemesis for my entire 36 weeks of being pregnant... Hardly ate more than a grilled cheese sandwich a day, and at 36 weeks, gave birth to a healthy 7lb 1oz baby girl. Didn't take a single vitamin either..... Hmmmm
Kim Schwintz
Texas Chapter
Kim
Ainsley Kathryn 11/26/02-36 Weeks Preeclampsia
http://home.austin.rr.com/schwintz |
Edited by - Kim on 09/01/2003 9:05:03 PM |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 01:00:16 AM
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Hi Joni,
Thanks for your support on my decision to follow the Brewer Diet. As you may have read, I did have a miscarriage when I was 9 weeks along. However, I do plan on following aspects of the Brewer Diet the next time around.
Like I had previously posted, I know in my first pregnancy, I did not eat the way I should have. I often skipped meals, I wasn't hungry, I'd snack and eat healthy foods when I did eat, but I didn't eat enough. I had actually lost weight in the whole pregnancy. After I gave birth, I weighed less than I did when I got pregnant - and I'm not overweight.
I've learned that preeclampsia is really just an umbrella term for a multi-system, multi-organ disorder that varies from woman to woman. What might have caused my bout with preeclampsia and my symptoms can be totally different for another woman. I have read though most of the postings and stories on this site and there are lots of women who have lost babies and lots of women who have serious medical problems, but who are still brave enough to try again against some incredible odds. I now realize that when they are told that they are to blame because of their diet, it's very offensive. In my case, I don't take offense, because in my case,(and I don't have any underlying medical condition), I think my diet very well may have caused my preeclampsia.
I wish that Dr. Brewer had a better reputation and relationship with the Preeclampsia Foundation. It makes me feel disappointed to hear that he's basically harassed the organization - an organization that's doing it's best to fund research, raise awareness of a dangerous and often lingering disease of women and babies and help women with symptoms who are not yet diagnosed. It doesn't help his cause to be so caustic toward this group of women who are just here to help other women. Having said that, I do feel that his nutritional views are basically sound. I've read other pregnancy books by more "reputable" authors like Dr. Sears and in their chapter on nutrition, they call for pregnant women to increase their calories and increase their protien intake to 100 grams - that's exactly what Dr. Brewer calls for too.
I don't want to beat a dead horse... that's kind of what I feel like I'm doing now. I respect the other women on this site and what they've been through. I also respect the doctors who are working with the foundation and working hard to find a cause and treatment for this disease. We need to work together and not point fingers or aruge about what we did or didn't do during our pregnancy to "cause" preeclampsia, when probably in 99% of the cases nothing we did or didn't do caused preeclampsia to develop. I hope in the future there will be a "cure" or some kind of preeclampsia prevention that we can follow, maybe it will be a combination of nutritional and diagnostic medical care, who knows. I am glad that the Preeclampsia Foundation is here though, now, to provide support and awareness for women and the medical community.
Sarah |
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Taras Mom
Advanced Member
937 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 04:27:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sarahedgcomb
Sample menu plan - 3,300 calories. . . .
It doesn't sound that over the top to me. Doesn't sound like too much food to me either. Maybe I eat more than other women on this chat board, I don't know. I'm not overweight though, and I haven't gained much since I've been pregnant - 8 weeks now.
I suspect most women would gain too much extra weight on this diet; I know I would! What does Brewer recommend (if anything) for women with lower metabolisms?
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Edited by - Taras Mom on 09/21/2003 05:46:10 AM |
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Taras Mom
Advanced Member
937 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 05:33:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Joni
I got caught up in the exchange of mails on this subject and was aghast at the condescending treatment you received. . . .
I have been a childbirth educator, doula and midwife for 20 years and thankfully NEVER run into preeclampsia which frankly makes my track
record better than your list mates! Grin.
I congratulate you on your track record and your lack of condescension. Grin.
quote:
I sense as did you that many of these woman abdicated themselves from their participation in their wellbeing and in their births.
I sense that your lack of experience with preeclampsia is feeding your well-nourished schadenfreude.
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. . . ultimately it is the mom who controls what she ingests and what her baby receives.
With a little help from the placenta. You have your reading cut out for you.
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Bad diets are linked to stillborn babies, low birth weight babies, premature babies, and infection prone babies. Your list mates can decry this fact all that they want and deny personal responsibilty too for that matter but the fact remains is that a better nourished mom doesn't have to feel guilty about her lousy habits IF she were to encounter any of above problems in her baby and a poorly nourished mom can't absolve herself quite so easily!
What a relief! As a well-nourished mom, I'd love to share this guilt-free feeling with my daughter someday. If only the nutrients had reached her.
Hey, ladies, I must be pregnant again! I feel the morning sickness already. [xx(]
(Note to Anne: In the interest of civility, I'll refrain from suggesting additional icons for the Smilies menu.) |
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sarahedgcomb
Starting Member
Netherlands
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2003 : 05:57:26 AM
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Hi Taras Mom,
I don't know if you were serious when you asked if Dr. Brewer recommends anything for women with slower metabolisms. However if you are serious and would like to know what his books says, here are a couple of excerpts.
When to start the Diet:
"A 2,000 calorie per day intake and a well balanced diet when you're not pregnant probably meet the needs of most women of childbearing age. Your calorie needs increase progressively as pregnancy goes on, even if your activity level remains the same. Growing a baby takes a lot of calories. In the first few months of pregnancy, the baby is very tiny and doesn't require large amounts of nutrients, so your appetite may not tell you to eat more. But usually by the fourth or fifth month the 2,500 - 3,000 calorie range becomes more like it, and your appetite increases. If it doesn't you need to find out why."
Calories and Protein:
"The overall aim is for the mother expecting one baby to have 2,600 calories and 100 grams of protein each day, plus salt and other essential minerals and vitamins she needs.... In a normal pregnancy, the mother develops a good appetite, so the single rule governing amounts of food is: eat to appetite. Mothers who are underweight at conception may develop much larger appetites during pregnancy than those of normal weight. Mothers expecting twins or super multiples, need a minimum of 500 more calories and 30 grams more protein daily -for each extra baby."
Sarah |
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Taras Mom
Advanced Member
937 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2003 : 6:19:43 PM
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Of course I was serious; thanks for your reply. This is certainly more realistic than a blanket 3300-calorie-a-day recommendation. Still not a cure for preeclampsia, unfortunately, but more realistic.
Tara Mairichi
12/7-12/9, 2002
My little angel |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2003 : 7:18:27 PM
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Hopefully it is a cure for some women. It is unfortunate that something as simple as healthy eating is contentious--I think that is in part because many women--either due to extreme poverty, or hyperemesis--cannot control what nutrition they bring into their bodies so the diet cure is a frustrating one. And there are others, like me, with autoimmune diseases, and no matter how healthy your diet--you still are at risk.
I like to say--pregnancy is like a glass of water. If you start with a bit of extra weight--that is 1 oz, if you start with pre-existing hypertension, another oz, if you had preeclampsia before, three ounces, if you have an autoimmune disorder add an ounce. Pregnancy itself is a full six-ounces. Preeclampsia is when the cup runneth over the edge. Some women--who just have a normal cup--no extra water in there already--will be able to use a healthy diet to keep the disease at bay--other women won't. There is no question that we have our share of challenges. I am grateful that we can support one another--whatever path we take. In the end--a healthy baby and mother is our goal. I would be the first person to thank Dr. Brewer if his diet actually prevented this disease.
Thanks for the healthy debate.
Anne |
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Taras Mom
Advanced Member
937 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2003 : 11:41:22 PM
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You'd be first in a long line, and you'd be out of a job! What would you do with all that spare time?
Tara Mairichi
12/7-12/9, 2002
My little angel |
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annegarrett
Founder
USA
3282 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2003 : 12:29:08 AM
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I am sure I could think of something...[;)]
Anne |
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shdavi
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 3:27:58 PM
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| Please advise where to get info on the Brewer's Diet, what does it consist of etc. |
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coenenites
Starting Member
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:01:57 AM
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| I had to register just to be able to step in and say that I have had MANY friends who have done the Brewer diet and have had TERRIFIC outcomes. In fact one had toxemia in a previous pregnancy and had a 50% chance of getting it again. She didn't. I am really surprised at the way Sarah as well as the Midwife were attacked, not just by other members but by you Anne - come on now 'shame on you'??? Well shame on you for not allowing someone to voice their opinions. I am on the Brewer/Bradley diet and have to say that I have had NO complications - not even morning sickness. It makes sense, why wouldn't you encourage someone to try it? Ok, maybe it's not an all cure, but there is no way that it can hurt you - it's a HEALTHY diet. I am in week 13 and have gained 4 pounds, much less then my friends who are 'free for all'. Bravo to you who are willing to give it a try - check ou the support pages at the Bradley website, it's a lot more encouraging than this one. [:(!] |
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 10:58:53 AM
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Coentities, thanks for sharing your opinion. In the best interests and health of our members we try not to deal with anecdotal evidence and supposition here, and have no compunction with highlighting the difference between science and opinion. To do anything else would be unkind. We follow the lead of our Expert Medical Board who agrees with this "opinion" (more vehemently than we do, I can mention.)
I can only assume from what you've mentioned that you don't have preeclampsia, nor have you had preeclampsia, so unfortunately, that precludes you from weighing in on this debate. People who have this disease feel differently than people who have not. I'd like to point you to this thread from another Bradley/Brewer alumna who was also feeling pretty satisfied around week 13:
http://www.preeclampsia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2274
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum and at this point, there's really nothing else to say- all that's left is cheerleading. And no, shame on ME for not letting everyone be heard, because I'm making an executive decision and locking this topic. Our members seeking information can learn what they need to from this link from our Medical Experts:
http://www.preeclampsia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3919
Links to the site in question will be edited, we don't permit links to commercial sites that purport to treat, cure, or otherwise mitigate the causes or effects of preeclampsia.
Laura
Forum Administrator
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Laura
Administrator Emeritus
USA
6190 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 12:20:39 PM
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For those seeking a healthy diet to follow during pregnancy here's a link to the ACOG diet (American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology)
http://www.preeclampsia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1820
But we must mention that the Preeclampsia Foundation does not endorse any diet and encourages all women (particularly those with special considerations such as diabetes and kidney disease) to consult their doctors before trying any diet that they read about either here, elsewhere on the web, or through word of mouth.
Laura
Forum Administrator |
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Brewer Diet?
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