watching Oprah today was very depressing

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laura
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby laura » Fri Oct 15, 2004 06:12 pm

Gossamer, I definitely don't think you owe anyone an apology. Feeling that your experience and your sweet Mary Rose takes precedence over all others is what you should be feeling and doing. Doesn't everyone do that? How could they not? I just needed to remind everyone that we're all batting for the same team.

Laura
Administrator/AK Area Coordinator

Alicia (severe PE) 5/98 ~ Camille (htn, oligo) 4/03
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/

gossamer
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby gossamer » Fri Oct 15, 2004 04:40 pm

Laura, you are right and I apologize if I made anybody feel less than. We don't need to compare our pain, we all have more than our share. Please accept my apologies.
Gossamer

"Before you were conceived, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were a minute old, I would have died for you. This is the miracle of life. " -Maureen Hawkins
New little angel 10/03/04 http://www.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/zo ... .dir=/f23e

laura
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby laura » Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:53 pm

I think also that from now on we are going to move the loss related "I can't handle pregnant women" threads to the Grief and Loss forum, so that there's less of an overlap.

Laura
Administrator/AK Area Coordinator

Alicia (severe PE) 5/98 ~ Camille (htn, oligo) 4/03
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/

laura
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby laura » Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:29 pm

First, I want to say that I sincerely appreciate the mature and kind way that you guys have expressed your differences. Despite the fact that nobody's head has exploded yet, I'm still pretty certain this topic raises a lot of emotion on both sides of the equation based on some of the emails I've gotten. I'm proud of you guys, because if you're going to have an emotionally charged debate, this is the way to do it. And to be honest, I "get" both sides of it, and I hate that people have felt wounded or marginalized by this discussion.

We've got a couple of themes going on here that we've seen before-- it's pretty common (and NORMAL!) for people who have had a traumatic pregnancy and birth (whether there's loss involved or not) to feel somehow robbed of an experience they took for granted would be lovely-- like everyone else's seems to be. This feeling is normal, and definitely normal for us here in this particular forum, and since it is something that we share in common, it can be a bonding point.

On the other hand, we have an issue that Catherine, (purveyor of all that is good and holy) likes to call the "sliding scale of pain" meaning that it is fruitless to compare the quantity and quality of Pain. It is a false argument akin to arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Isn't that what this thread has come to be about? Who has the worse situation?

We do ourselves and each other a disservice by comparing pain like battle scars- because if this is a competion, someone has to lose. Someone's pain has to be marginalized. Ultimately, it is a game everyone will lose, because there's always something worse that can happen.

I say, this forum says--whatever you have been through, it is enough. If support and understanding are something you're seeking here, I ask that you extend that support and understanding to someone else, and please don't ever imply that their experiences aren't "enough" to be heard- regardless of what side you're on.

Laura
Administrator/AK Area Coordinator

Alicia (severe PE) 5/98 ~ Camille (htn, oligo) 4/03
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/camilleandallie/

arj
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby arj » Fri Oct 15, 2004 02:08 pm

There's to be no flaming toward you Gossamer!! I hope you don't think anyone would have the nerve to do that. Sometimes different statements and opinions and viewpoints just "spark" certain emotions in different people, that's all. No doubt that burying your child is truly the most unnatural and sorrowful experience that a mother can have. I don't think any sane person would dispute that.

It's not fair what you've been through. Glad you could get that stuff off of your chest. And even though "emotionally" you will probably never have a normal pregnancy, I sure am hoping and praying that "physically" it will be successful.

Allison (29)
DS-Evan, 7/19/2003. Mild PE at 40 weeks

gossamer
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby gossamer » Fri Oct 15, 2004 01:31 pm

I have been a military daughter and a military wife, and yes, there are hardships and in no way do I begrudge anything those women got. The life of a military family is hard. BUt I think there is a difference between envying other's and mourning my lack. I don't have to envy the Army wives to completely mourn my lack of a joyful, carefree pregnancy. I don't have tob e jealous of anyone else's pregnancy to wish for an experience lost. I have a very good friend who is pregnant and due the same month I would have been due had I not miscarried. I am very happy for her and her husband and thrilled that she is going to be a momma. My happiness for her is in no way diluted by my sorrow that I am not pregnant. I don't think it has to be one or the other, it can be both with both feelings being very valid. The other thing is that those husbands and wives may not have isgned up for the war, but they volunteered to be a part of the military community. I never volunteered to become a part of the pre-eclamptic community. I think we are trying to compare apples and oranges here. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes, I ust don't think there is a comparison. For example, if these women are pregnant without their husband's around this time, if they get pregnant again and their husband's are no longer in the Army and they haven't had any complications, it has the potential to be a joyful unstressed pregnancy. No matter when I get pregnant, who my spouse is, how much money we have, where I live, or what I do, I will have a nervous, tense, fearful, jittery pregnancy full of medical observation and intervention. I have lost the ability to EVER have a "normal" pregnancy. SOrry I am just spewing here, guess I have some things to get off my chest also. Please forgive me if I have hurt anyone's feelings, that is in no way my intention, but I also think there is a difference between having a difficult pregnancy and bringing your baby home and having a difficult pregnancy and burying your baby. Just my opinion. (Flame away)
Gossamer
Gossamer

"Before you were conceived, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were a minute old, I would have died for you. This is the miracle of life. " -Maureen Hawkins
New little angel 10/03/04 http://www.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/zo ... .dir=/f23e

cara
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby cara » Fri Oct 15, 2004 01:02 pm

Allison,

I can surely sympathize....my husband is in the Army as well and this topic certainly hit a sensitive spot in me. I was overjoyed when I saw those wives get a little bit of happiness in what is a terrible time to have the one you loved and have committed your life to leave for a long time. Some of the babies were shown yesterday (or the day before, I can't remember) and the mothers were in tears b/c of the kindness that Oprah bestowed upon them. We "lucked out" big time this past deployment from the State of Louisiana. Our son was in the NICU and 20 Lieutenants were needed to attach to the brigade that was leaving. One of the Commanders, who knows my husband and our situation, called him and told him that he was "lucky " that he had a son in the hospital. As mad as I got when I heard it put that way, I was even more elated that my support system was not leaving me. Can any of you imagine going through this alone? I do not know what I would have done without him there.

I have never lost a child though, so I cannot even imagine or begin to imagine the ultimate pain that some of you have been through. But if I had to do it alone, it would be that much worse. There was a woman who did deliver early from PIH from that Army base. She was on the update the other day and her baby was healthy. So at least she has that. I did not mean to make this a military platform or anything but I think that Allison really hit it on the head when she wrote that their pregnancies are not normal either. I just think that it was nice to see something done for them.


Cara L. Stevens
Mother of Grant, born 3/28/04 at 33 weeks
Diagnosed with PIH very early, then with Pre-e

allic
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby allic » Thu Oct 14, 2004 08:40 pm

My two cents... : ) A lot of times I feel guilty for having such negativity towards the pregnant models in the ads and such because I have two basically healthy babies, which I know is more than a lot of us. But I think the sadness, anger...whichever form of negativity I get, it comes from something we can ALL relate to, whether we had happy outcomes or not: we were robbed of a time in our lives that should have been a happy one. Not only were we robbed once, but many of us are robbed second and third times. And we have to deal with people who think that our type of ultrasound is fun. So in a way, I think the "roundbellies" represent what we all know we won't have...even if our subsequent pregnancies are 100% normal and we have time for the frilly shower, there will always be the worry and the what if's. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't know if mine is jealousy as much as it is just general negativity associated with the round belly that I never got to get.

http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aubriejane/

josiah1112
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby josiah1112 » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:54 am

Allison,

I know you mean well, and everything you said IS
true. It's just that it's not what I expect to hear here at
the forum. For most of us, this is the only place
where we feel understood. Trust me, I am happy
about others good outcomes and I am also aware of
others bad outcomes, but..I guess what I am trying to
say is that we get enough of how we should or should not
feel by everyone else. This is our only true refuge.
Maybe it seems insane and jealous but you have to
understand that our hearts have literally been
ripped out of our chests...



Gloria mom to Josiah 11/12/03- 12/4/03 @ 26wks pre e
Moderator- Foro Latino
Future Adoptive Mom

dmmetler
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Re : watching Oprah today was very depressing

Postby dmmetler » Thu Oct 14, 2004 06:30 am

Believe me, I wouldn't wish what I went through in my first pregnancy on my worst enemy. For that matter, I wouldn't wish what's been involved with this pregnancy on my worst enemy.

It's not so much envy, I think, as grief. There is so much tied up in being pregnant and preparing for our baby, and because of the nature of our pregnancies, there's not much we can do. Control is given over to others entirely. And, at the base of it, there's only your own body to blame-so it's really hard NOT to feel guilty because you can't do for your child as you wish to. It's a locus of control issue. It is easier to deal with stress if you don't feel that you're the one responsible for it. And that's hard to do when it's your own body which has rebelled and is rebelling-and when it's your own child who has suffered and, in many cases, died, because your body lost control.

While military wives have a lot of stress and anxiety, and I don't mean to make light of that, and i don't begrudge them the shower, I can't share their joy either. I wish I could. But my grief is too strong.





Mother to Angel Brian Anthony, 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP and "Cuddles" EDD 12/24/04, borderline PIH, on bedrest now.


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