are people really this clueless?

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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby kbunsey » Thu Oct 01, 2009 08:30 am

That's funny, Caryn!

I also forgot the web pages that saw we need to either ingest or be exposed to more of our husband's seamen.
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby amandaoasis » Thu Oct 01, 2009 09:51 am

Katie,

Where can I find the video you are talking about? I would like to post it to my facebook as well.
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby caryn » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:27 am

There's actually been quite a bit of research into seminal priming; here's a review article that says For induction of major histocompatibility complex (MHC) class I-specific tolerance, long-term exposure to seminal fluid, which contains paternal soluble MHC class I antigens, may induce paternal MHC class I-specific tolerance. That means that one particular thing that our immune systems could fail to tolerate in pregnancy seems to be related to prior exposure to the partner's proteins, where more exposure means better tolerance for the foreign placenta.

There's also some research showing that a shorter period of cohabitation with the partner prior to conception is correlated to a higher risk of preeclampsia.

But if you don't control for other conditions like advanced maternal age, this could be misleading -- older women are more likely to attempt pregnancy early in a relationship than younger women *and* more likely to get preeclampsia -- so they have also looked at a relationship with barrier contraception, and found that once you sort the populations by age, a link between seminal exposure and preeclampsia disappears. In unadjusted analyses, a prolonged time to conception was associated with preeclampsia (OR 1.9), however, after adjustment, the association was less prominent (OR 1.6) and after stratification by contraception method, the link between time to conception and preeclampsia was eliminated.

So that means maybe seminal priming affects tolerance of one particular class of the partner's antigens, but this doesn't really seem to have a whole lot to do with preeclampsia, or else we'd see higher rates of PE in people with less exposure, and this apparently doesn't happen.

I am fond of the work on the genetic mismatch betweenHLA-C and KIR, because it provides a nice clean explanation for what goes wrong, with no role for MOAR SEXZ nor MOAR PROTEENS. (As a gal who'd been married for 9 years preconception and who'd been on the Brewer diet, I could rather safely rule both those suggestions out.)

Briefly, it says that it comes down to a genetic mismatch between the receptors in the maternal killer cells in the uterine lining, and the signals generated by the paternally-derived trophoblastic invasive cells that help form the placenta. The key just doesn't fit the lock, and so before you even know you're pregnant (during implantation), things go completely sideways.

But thinking about this is harder than saying, well, most people who do X don't get it, so therefore since you got it you didn't do X. It makes them safe. They won't get it because they Did Everything Right.

Also, infertiles, if you just relax you'll get pregnant! And it's the fault of diabetics because they're fat! And if your blood pressure is up you should try constructive self-talk!

This is pre-scientific "thinking", and thinking is in scare quotes for a reason.
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby eleni » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:04 am

Katie,
The You Tube version is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2g_WJDrogo, but it is an edited version of the 20 minute documentary we produced last year which can be purchased in our Marketplace (basically just a S&H fee). If you haven't been to our [url="http://www.preeclampsia.org/pfstore/products.asp"] Marketplace [/url], that's where you can pick up educational materials for distribution, this DVD, and some PF branded awareness-building items to wear and share.

Feel free to post it on your FB page.

thanks!
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby joannek » Thu Oct 01, 2009 05:17 pm

I am still reeling from the bus driver who scolded Veronica for not having a home birth and doing what is best for the baby. Are you serious???!!!???? Smack 'em in the head!
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby mellybute » Thu Oct 01, 2009 06:21 pm

All I can say is I don't know where I would be right now if it wasn't for this site. I have learned so much about what happened to me from the experience of you other women alone. Everyone around me seemed stumped literally about what was going on. Or if they knew more, they did not enlighten me. One of the on-call Ob's from my doctors office told me in ICU "I don't know what to do with you, you're not responding to normal treatments." This was while I was on Mag and bp still through the roof. She then told me my liver may be failing and was getting a cardiologist in to check my heart and do an echocardiogram.

All I knew is she didn't seem to know what the heck was happening to me and neither did I. To read other women's experiences and knowledge of this disorder has helped me so much process all of this and to move forward and not be so scared of dieing. When I got out of the hospital I was sure I was still on the brink.

This website is a lifesaver for me.

I think the docs do try not to "scare" pregnant women, but I also think that is the wrong approach. Because when it DOES happen to women, it scares the daylights out of them because we don't know what's going on. I personally had no idea. I have posted a lot of things on my facebook too, the link to the police officer that died of HELLP, the link to the news anchor with PE, and also told everone about it being discussed the the Doctor Show.

I think ALL women need to know what COULD happen during pregnancy. And I'm sorry I just don't think it's that "rare." There's too many of us.

Just my opinion.

~melissa
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby kara » Thu Oct 01, 2009 07:17 pm

Melly -

According the PF Survey, you are correct. Women who are educated on the topic, have better outcomes.
http://www.preeclampsia.org/pressroom/content.aspx?pressid=8165050 Press release on the survey
http://www.preeclampsia.org/pdf/rawdata-pe.pdf Raw survey data
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby jgrumet » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:50 pm

Veronica!...omg - that is disgusting.

I find myself to be very "crunchy" (attachment parenting: ext. bfing, cloth diapering, cosleeping)- but that repulses me.

It is funny that AP parents get a lot of grief from more mainstream parents, but it looks like they are giving it right back- and not in a good way.

I get really upset when I read Mothering Magazine and it talks about how bad C-sections are. Do they forget they actually do have a purpose? Then it tries to scare people telling how all these women die from getting them every year. I can just imagine a pregnant woman reading that and needing to get an emergency c-section because of preeclampsia and how terrified she must be because of it. These crazy "crunchies" have an agenda and it sometimes isn't right.

Oh...another thing that gets me about the magazine is how all these mothers are trying to ban dolls from coming with bottles because they are so against them. Again, bottles have a purpose. As a future adoptive parent it would be wonderful to breastfeed my child, but it may not be possible. It really irritates me that these people are so black and white on these issues they are not that informed about.
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby jmom08 » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:55 am

Yes!! I have had similar experiences in talking with people about PE. The "About Us" section of this website is right on, it really does feel like women become part of a silent club. There should be billboards everywhere. (Someday there will be, right? Or no need for them!)
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Re : are people really this clueless?

Postby jgrumet » Fri Oct 02, 2009 03:28 pm

I was thinking about it the other day. PE isn't really rare at all....the majority won't get it, but a good chunk of the pregnant population will.

HELLP really isn't that rare either. I mean, again- most won't get it, but it isn't one of those 1 in a million things. 1 out of every 250 women get it. That is a lot! Does anyone know where they get this statistic from? I'm curious if the number is actually higher. I know my medical records only say I had PE and not HELLP. I'm curious is a lot of people just are unaccounted for. Either way, it happens more than people think. If I never found this site, or my doctor never said anything about my platelets I would still thing I only have PE. I bet there are a lot of people out there thinking they "only" had PE.
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